What is the most painless way to get rid of this software?

Edit: Looks like maybe you did have a trial running based on the post right before mine here, so the following may not be relevant, not sure.

I'm not going to really repeat what's already been said by the experts here on JAMFNation, but did want to mention one thing here. JAMF is totally OK with people trialing their product in full for about 30 days prior to any purchase and it sounds to me like you simply looked at some online information and just recommended it without actually kicking the tires. Is that the case here? If so, for something that doesn't just cost a few bucks, this doesn't sound like the wisest decision. And not to be rude, but it sounds like you're trying to shift some blame for a rash decision process onto JAMF. Maybe its partly their fault if they didn't recommend that you trial it first, but that isn't really their place to tell you what to do before a purchase.

Recommending a trial period isn't to say that the product doesn't work, because it does. The thousands of clients JAMF has, many of them very large companies and school districts by the way can attest to that. Where I am now, we are a global technology company with Mac clients in just about avery major country in the world, managing close to 6000 Macs (and growing daily!) with the product. I won't say its perfect because no piece of software ever made has been perfect or ever will be, but we would have moved on long ago if it wasn't doing what we wanted for the most part.

Anyway, a trial would have given you a good base to work from and actually helped both you and your client with the decision of yay or nay before laying out any money. That's how I started with the product in another company and eventually made the recommendation to IT management that it was the way to go to manage our Mac environment. A trial would have shown you that its not ARD, it does use several local applications in conjunction with the web app, and requires a bit of upfront planning and has a learning curve. Incidentally, JAMF wants new customers to go through the JumpStart specifically because there is a learning curve. They aren't being jerks about it; they want to make sure you have a baseline of knowledge. Maybe your JumpStart wasn't really sufficient for your needs - that's possible. Do you know if the JumpStart was done by a JAMF employee or by a certified partner of theirs?
I will say that I do wish JAMF and their JumpStart partners were a little more flexible in what materials actually get covered in the JS based on a customers needs. I have seen many times that the curriculum is too rigid and you end up going over stuff that isn't all that important to get you started. I think they can do better here personally, so in that respect I can understand some of your frustration there.

All that said, if you do actually want to solve your issues and get Casper Suite running for you and Margaret, you've come to the right place. It would have been better if you came here earlier rather than near the point of dumping it altogether, but I think your situation is salvageable. BUT, it will take effort on your part to work through this and not expect an overnight miracle solution.

Then I also echo the local CCA suggestion, where abouts in the world are you based? Like bentoms I'm also London based and in the same situation about knowledge sharing. It sounds like you need an experienced Casper admin to have a look at what's going on, you may find yourself enjoying the product after all...

to me, it sounds like you've done a disservice to your client by not testing this setup first. as a professional consultant, i would hope you'd do your homework before saddling the client with a big purchase.

i wouldn't have recommended purchasing casper for managing 25 - 30 macs. it's not worth it. then again, i'm not really a casper fan and also don't manage macs any more.

if you haven't used casper (or similar suite) before, there's a learning curve. there are a bunch of hoops to jump, and far too much manual work to "make it go," but that's the reality. often you'll hear the "just use this script" or "write a simple script to do x y z" or "create a policy to run a script that blah, blah." at its core, casper is an inventory/policy database and a web frontend to manage it. clients communicate with the server via ssh to query the database for polices, etc. you should have done your homework and realized this before deciding to purchase and use the system.

note: i want my 5 minutes back after typing this reply.

@Shearer, our JumpStart left us with things that weren't working quite right as well. So I can appreciate the position you are in. I spent some time working with my account manager, but I quickly realized this forum is the best place to get help. If you describe your JSS setup and explain the problem your having there is someone willing to help. Often times there are multiple people that will help resolve your issue. It doesn't sound to me like you are interested in the help the forum members are willing to provide and that you just want the JAMF support people to fix "it" for you. You're probably better off cutting your losses and going back to the old way you were doing things. But, I am curious why you recommended Casper to your client if you've not actually used it before. That's not something I'd be willing to do. If you've used FileWave in the past, why you didn't recommend that product instead? Good luck, and if you change your mind on wanting the nations help post some specifics that people can dig into and help you with.

@shearer since you think it is a waste to list out each incident in a separate email, let's try to address a few of the ones that you did mention above:

- Office 2011 update policies work randomly.

How are you adding the update to Casper? I simply drag and drop the PKG file from the downloaded DMG file into Casper Admin and then use that for my policy.

Are you installing at login/logout or using the Every15 or Any triggers? If you are using anything but login/logout, you may be running into an issue of a user having an Office app open during the policy run. Anytime I do an Office update, or an Adobe update for that matter, I use the login or logout trigger. I find I have far fewer failures if I use these triggers. Have you tried that?

Have you verified that you are applying the correct Office update to the correct Office version? I found recently that I could not apply 14.3.6 to a 14.2.5 update without first patching to 14.3.0. Even though the Office for Mac web site states that 14.3.6 should be able to apply to anything SP 1 and up. I would verify that the machines that are failing have the minimum version for the patch.

What do the logs say on one of the failed machines? I know you said you didn't want to post all of the log files you've sent up to JAMF, but can you supply something to show?

- Flash update policies work randomly

This one is an issue for 99% of the admins on this site, and it's due to Adobe's crappy installer and process. Just run back through some of the older JAMF Nation posts and you'll feel the hatred most of us have for Adobe's installers. Granted, Jody Rodgers and team did a wonderful job of getting Adobe to move forward for Enterprise support, there's still some holes.

That being said, again, how are you triggering the patch? Login and logout seem to be the most successful for me.

I have also found that Todd Ness' (@nessts) Perl script method for installing Flash updates has been near flawless for me. I've had close to a 100% success rate using this method, as a login policy.

- Acrobat update policies work randomly.

Again, how are you adding them to Casper? Are you dropping the PKG file from the DMG directly into Casper Admin? This is how I add them into Casper.

Trigger, again....Login/Logout seem to be the methods that work the best for these.

As many have already echoed, the JAMF Nation is a wonderful resource to use. I personally have been administering a Casper site for over 5 years now with about 160 machines or so in our inventory. I did not have the luxury of a Jump Start, as Casper was already installed before I got here. I had to learn it from scratch on my own, but with the help of the then Casper Mailing List. The guys on that list were a wonderful help for me, and I learned a lot from asking questions and from just reading how others were handling things. Reach out to the Nation, we're here to help, and often times have answers faster than the JAMF guys do.

One more thing. I used to own my own consulting company back in Los Angeles. It's been many moons since then, but I know how I would handle this situation if it were me. If it were me, and I had made a recommendation for a client to purchase a piece of software, or hardware, and they were not satisfied, I would try very hard to make it work. Yes, I know this is what you've already done. However, if I were in your position, and my name were on the line, I would also consider giving up some hours, or billing at a reduced rate, so that my name was not damaged. A little goodwill can go a very long way to solidifying a relationship with your client. Just my 2 pennies.

I forgot to add a link to Todd's Perl script and the discussion we all had:

https://jamfnation.jamfsoftware.com/discussion.html?id=5713

Office 2011 updates for me outside of casper with version 14.3.5 and 14.3.6 have started having some random weirdness where they hang in the middle of the update and send the processor and fans off to working very hard, so I think it might not be a Casper problem since we use Altiris at that customer and it happens with command line installs of the package vs. using the GUI by hand.

I would suggest installing all your updates at login, so nothing else is running, that will could solve your Adobe suite install issues. And really it sounds like you might be better off running around justifying your existence visiting each computer separately. Then you can address all of the issues as they come up or prevent them from happening altogether by controlling the environment that the installs happen in. Casper is a Mac product that supports Mac with the UNIX back end that finally made Apple have a great operating system.

IMO Casper Suite is so powerful if you have any useful scripting skills that you can pretty much make it do anything you want it to do. And yes you have to augment what JAMF supplies, there are millions of use cases, they attack the biggest most common problems and make it easy for the rest of them to be handled with patience and practice.

Throw your money away, please quit telling us how bad it is and move on if you don't want the help so my inbox will quit filling up with people trying to help you. However, if you take one thing at a time and ask patiently and learn from what people are telling you here, you will probably become quite happy with the Casper Suite.

i think we all need to stop feeding the troll. He obviously doesn't want our help and would rather lambast JAMF for his shortcomings. Shame on you, sir, for recommending a product you know nothing about to your client. In no universe is recommending a management suite designed to handle THOUSANDS of machines to an environment with less than 50 OK. To top that, you have multiple people on this thread beseeching you to allow them to help if you would just calmly post each issue you are having, and yet you refuse them, making some nonsensical comment about litigating against JAMFSoftware. Wow a legal firm wanting to litigate, let me go think about that one.

I see this every day with our support techs. If it doesn't "just work," or the answer to a problem doesn't jump into their outstretched arms, or our engineering team does not spoon-feed them every bit of information they might need to solve a problem they moan and cry like pre-schoolers and somehow try to justify their incompetence by displacing blame. Heaven forbid they take 10 minutes and look it up - that might force them to learn something.

There's nothing wrong with Casper. If there was, I seriously doubt there'd be thousands of admins using it. Something is wrong with your environment, and that's no one's fault but your own. Stop wasting everyone elses time and do the right thing by your client - refund their money and then recommend a different consulting firm to support them.

@acdesigntech wrote:

Shame on you, sir, for recommending a product you know nothing about to your client.

and

...refund their money and then recommend a different consulting firm to support them.

+1

I've done 4 JAMF cleanups now (I do consulting on the side) and it was all started by Former Mac Geniuses who think they are Apple Gods. Fixing your grandmas iWork and managing an Infrastructure to Corporate and SOX standards is like playing Football on the XBOX and being in the NFL. May sound jerkish but maybe you should stick to the XBOX and leave the NFL for the Pros so people like me don't have to waste my time and clients money fixing mistakes. JAMF makes a great product and has hands down the BEST customer service I have ever dealt with. Most companies we deal with will give you the good ole Heisman if you need help. Nothing like a stiff arm to the face when your company is down.

Yeah, y'know, the more I read through, wasting my time, the more I'm inclined to wonder if this isn't actually some kind of trolling going on. If not, then just the typical disgruntled individual who wants to blame the whole world for their troubles. Either way, I agree with @acdesigntech, @nessts and others that, if you keep claiming you're too far gone to help, them just delete the software, cut your losses and go back to your sneaker-net approach. With only 30 or so Macs I would agree that the full Casper Suite is total overkill anyway. I'm almost surprised JAMF even sold it to you. I've seen them discourage clients with such a small # of Macs to manage from making a purchase b/c they know its not cost effective and sometimes leads to unhappy customers.

I have to think that the folks at JAMF aren't too thrilled about this thread. This kind of crap gets picked up by Google's web crawlers so it will invariably show up in some search on the product later. Not good publicity for a fantastic product that stands head and shoulders above any of the competitors out there. As mentioned JAMF has customers that number in the many thousands. Total # of managed Macs is well past the million + mark. Not too shabby for a product that doesn't actually work according to you, huh?

So I'm with acdesigntech; maybe we should stop responding unless Mark, or Margaret or whoever they are responds back and asks for sincere help. I know we all like to bend over backwards to help our fellow Mac admins, but in this case, we may be pissing in the wind.

This thread is better than any reality TV I've watched lately! :)

I think this thread though shows something really important, our communities ability to support where JAMF maybe can't (its inevitable of course for any company thats why we have jobs!) and the camaraderie we all have. If anything it shows we have a good solid community of people who are willing to help and defend the product that helps us make a living.

It appears Mark is the tech for:

http://www.bhf.com.au/Margaret%20Shearer.html

To be frank, I hope Margaret Shearer gives Mark an opportunity to get up to speed. He proposed the right solution, however given the circumstances, maybe he's expecting too much too soon?

I'll withold my comments regarding Mark learning the proposed solution on the client's dime...however, I will say that despite Mark's frustration, he can't say JAMF Nation isn't the best community in the Mac management business. :)

Don

Im open to help with any issues as well. I've seen Casper in a lot of environments and have seen the best of the best and the worst of the worst. This sounds to me like something that can be resolved.

Double Damnit!

I also agree, because almost all situations are salvageable. But it will take Mark and Margaret most of all to have patience and put in some effort, since all any of us can do is make recommendations from afar. The information they provide will be crucial to getting this running they way it was designed to.. From Mark's comments above, it sounds like he, or she, is ready to throw in the towel, which is unfortunate. Hopefully they can work out an agreement to give it a chance.

@donmontalvo siad:

however given the circumstances, maybe he's expecting too much too soon?

That was my thought as well. I think unless you solid experience already with the product, trying to make Casper do everything you need to solve at once is going to lead to frustration. You have to walk before you can run!

Mark if you are reading this, can we all just start over. No harsh feelings just straight to the tech.

Your environment, what you are trying to do, the servers, etc. I am pretty sure the community can get you up and running very quick with the right info. Just to give you an idea... 3 years into Casper and our environment is still getting better everyday. Its a process. People forget Active Directory, SCCM, SMS, and Novell were out a long time. Casper is still relatively "new" in terms of management, and is extremely customizable. You can be a n00b and run Casper but its a good idea to have some background. Thats what we are all here for.

@Matt

What's the issue with former Apple Geniuses? Some of us actually know what we're doing.

IME, most of them are little more than glorified phone monkeys. However the support tech I work with now was an Apple Genius before he started at our company and he's pretty darn good. Picked up packaging very quickly and has a bash scripting ability second only to me ;)

Don't want to speak for him, but I think Matt meant it's the title more than anything that's disturbing because you can be an "Apple Genius" and be anything but...

@bajones - Was a Mac Genius for 5 years. The problem with Mac Geniuses is attitude. Most think they are infact a Genius. Also, in the beginning when I was at Apple Mac Geniuses were in fact computer geniuses that knew everything. Now Mac geniuses reset iPhones for a living. Being a Mac Genius is not what it was prior to 2009 especially when Apple Started "Grow Your Own". At that point every single Creative and Specialist became a Genius and most were lost.

Don't delete the thread please. It's probably the best way to show how great Casper is - the people that use and support one another are incredible. I'm new to CS as well, and the shared resources and quick replies to questions is something that I've never seen anywhere else.

"Jump Start" is not going to take you from the starting line to the finish line - it merely sets you up so the basics are in place. You have to put in the time and effort to learn it all. I'm just past the starting blocks, but I learn more every day. You don't even have to be a Script-Fu God to use the scripting and Extensions Attributes that are shared here, but it certainly would help.

I know I wanted to do it all as soon as I got back from our "Jump Start". I was quickly humbled and have spent every day and night trying and reading and learning. Still just crawling, but at least I'm crawling forward.

If you're real and not a troll, look at the amount of help offered up here - by some amazingly smart people, and for NOTHING. I'd wager the cost per hour of the brain-trust here is pretty steep. Think about it. A year from now, you could offer up Casper to new clients and actually know what you're doing - and help others.

When I started using Casper I couldnt even type in hostname into terminal. That was 3 years ago. Now I write scripts to save million dollar projects. This is not only a community for Casper but a community for Mac admins... period.

Could not agree more. Hands down the smartest and most generous Mac admin forum.

@ donmontalvo wrote

he can't say JAMF Nation isn't the best community in the Mac management business. :)

+1 for best JAMF supporting thread ever. I hope IT managers stumble across this and actually read it.

P.S. I'm actually horrified to think of the overall cost of this thread in $/hr. Then again, it's another reason to get onboard if you're not already ;-) Free IT support starting at tier 3-4