Yea, Toast stinks, but I have a question...

[donmontalvo]

Where is the Toast 12 Titanium license file stored? The Rox.dat file doesn't seem to exist. I searched across the entire Mac, after the volume license key was entered, including invisibles, including bundle contents, etc., and came up dry.

https://jamfnation.jamfsoftware.com/viewProductFile.html?fid=590

Is Toast 12 licensed some other way?

PS, Toast stinks...not just because it's useless bloatware (hello Burn.app!), but also because we have to go through this fiasco to deploy it. Roxio should just sell it to Microsoft so they can stick a dagger in it.

TIA,
Don

[donmontalvo · Accepted solution]

I can not attribute any of the following to any current/past/future Roxio engineer, but let's just say thank you very much for helping get this sorted out over a weekend.

The work was done on his computer. I connected remotely to share my knowledge and at the end we have a working deployment process that removes 11 and installs 12 and hits the Dock icons along the way.

Requirements:
- Toast 12 Titanium (version 12.1; won't work with 12.0)
- Test computer running 10.9.x (that's what we used)
- JSS 9.6x (that's what we used)

Create a removal script and upload to JSS:

#!/bin/sh
/bin/rm -Rfd /Applications/Toast 11 Titanium;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Library/Application Support/Roxio;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Documents/Roxio Converted Items;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Documents/TiVo Recordings;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/BeLight Software;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Disc Cover 3 RE;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/DiskCatalogMaker;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Mac2TiVo;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Roxio;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Spin Doctor X;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.belightsoft.DiskCover3.re.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.belightsoft.GetBackup2.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.mac.fujisoft.DiskCatalogMaker.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Mac2Tivo.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.spindoctorx.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.videoplayer.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.tivo.desktop.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/Roxio.dat;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Saved Application State/com.belightsoft.DiskCover3.re.savedState;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Services/ToastIt.service;
/bin/rm -Rfd /System/Library/Extensions/RoxioBluRaySupport.kext;
/bin/rm -Rfd /System/Library/Extensions/CDSDAudioCaptureSupport.kext

Take snapshot (sorry not a fan of Composer manifests; plus you can learn more by going through the motions):

1. Log in as root
2. Take BEFORE snapshot
3. Install Toast 12 Titanium
4. Launch Toast 12 Titanium
5. Go thorugh the motions to license/suppress (EULA, serial number, let it install Service, ignore stupid kext error, do not register, etc.)
6. Quit/relaunch Toast 12 Titanium to be sure settings stuck
7. Launch DiskCatalogMaker and Live Screen Capture if those matter at all (didn't to us)
8. Reboot and launch the apps again to be sure
9. Take AFTER snapshot and let it compare
10. Clean up the snapshot so it looks like the below image
11. Save as DMG and answer YES when asked if you want to populate user directories with the stuff in root's home directory
12. Upload DMG to JSS

Snapshot should look like this:

optional image ALT text

Upload Toast 11 Titanium Dock icon...and upload Toast 12 Titanium Dock icon. Yes they can both exist in JSS.

Create policy:

• Run the above script BEFORE to remove Toast 11 Titanium
• Remove old Dock icon, add new Dock icon
• Install Toast 12 TItanium and fill existing users / fill user template
• Have it update inventory
• No reboot necessary; no logout necessary
• We chose to make this a Self Service item for users to invoke
• Set Self Service item to run once per computer but don't provide a trigger
• For compliance reasons, obviously, narrow scope based on entitlement
• Test on a test Mac of course.
• Test on another Mac of course.
• Test on yet another Mac because why not.

User goes to Self Service, is warned to exit Toast, then Toast 11 is removed, and Toast 12 is installed, old Dock icon is removed, new Dock icon is added, and inventory is updated.

Last step: contact Roxio and point to this thread if only to shame and publicly lambast them for profiting off your sweat.

HTH,
Don

[brandonusher]

Why not run Composer for a New and Modified File scan, then install the application and get the package from there?

I recommend doing this on a machine that is a fresh OS install for best results.

[donmontalvo]

Yep, we did, but looks like Toast 12 Titanium dumps the license stuff in the user space (ugh).

Composer isn't excluding /Applications and nothing there changed, snapshot is done after install, before/after serialization.

We have a support contract with them, will see what they say - hopefully some Tier1 person won't get in the way of getting a real answer.

PS, we usually spin up a fresh VM for these kinds of things, then dump the VM when we're done. ;)

Thanks,
Don

[emily]

I'm having this same problem with Balsamiq Mockups. I reached out to their support and they said that it was not stored anywhere accessible, which seems kind of crazy to me. You may want to try reaching out to Toast and see if they have any recommendations.

[donmontalvo]

Roxio wins dev bozo of the year award 2012...for dumping 490.1 MB of Photoshop files into....drumroll....

(oh, and this stuff is moved up to /Library for testing...Roxio devs actually dumps this cr@p into the user's home directory)

external image link

[damienbarrett]

Don, that's some f.ugly install. Did I ever tell you about the Sophos developers deciding to name their Unix binary with a space in it. Or about the HP plotter driver installer that, if you installed it while logged in as root user, would delete everything off of every mounted share point (yeah, that was a fun day, having to rebuild my 100s of GBs on my Installers share point from backup).

Sometimes I can track down the licensing file by running fseventer (http://www.fernlightning.com/doku.php?id=software:fseventer:start) while I serialize the app. The app will show you all files being read, and being written to, and so sometimes it'll help you find the serialization file, or clue you into what's being modified to include the serialization flag.

[#8]

I think toast is cool http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/assets/System-Extensions/Twilight-Flying-Toasters-by-Nathan-Mates.gif

[donmontalvo]

@damienbarrett here's my favorite...the Citrix installer from hell. Stumbled upon this baby during our upgrade of the Polo Ralph Lauren environment from OS 9 to OS X...

external image link

[#10]

max os 10.6 environment detected.

[donmontalvo]

"It's like a nightmare, isn't it? ... worse and worse." - Vincent Lauria (The Color of Money)

And the winner for Developer Bozo Of The Year Award goes to.....

$ pkgutil --packages | grep com.roxio.toast
com.roxio.toast.toast11.DiskCatalogMaker.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Allegro(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Allegro.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Arabesque(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Arabesque.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Balloons(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Balloons.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Bulletin(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Bulletin.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Cobblestone(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Cobblestone.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Colors(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Colors.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Cut(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Cut.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.DiscCover3RE.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.GetBackup2RE.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Giftwrap(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Giftwrap.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Graffiti(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Graffiti.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Green(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Green.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Highway(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Highway.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Mac2Tivo.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Mystic(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Mystic.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Notebook(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Notebook.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Passport(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Passport.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.postflight.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Retro(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Retro.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Reunion(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Reunion.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Rhythm(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Rhythm.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Roses(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Roses.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Satin(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Satin.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Shavings(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Shavings.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.SpinDoctor.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Spotlights(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Spotlights.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.TiVoTransfer.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.ToastTitanium.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Turf(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Turf.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Tyke(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Tyke.pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Warp(16x9).pkg
com.roxio.toast.toast11Titanium.Warp.pkg
$

[donmontalvo]

OMG, can the geniuses at Roxio come up with a dumber version string...

external image link

So if you are using Licensed Software in JSS, take out the dot in your version:

is like [12.] <-- doesn't work

is like [12] <-- works (good thing we are at 2014, ey?)

[donmontalvo]

After months of endless emails, asking for a way to push Toast without users having to be disrupted/involved, Corel/Roxio sent us a VLP package. I'm downloading it now (330mb).

Their instructions are to use ARD to deploy, then have the users enter their admin rights on first launch so the necessary Kernel Extension can be ignored.

Really, these are their instructions to us.

I'll give this a little time to sink in.

(Of course this is insane, very Adobe "Teach us - we don't understand enterprise" like)

[davidacland]

Glad I haven't had to work with Toast for a few years! I guess you could keep the conversation going with them for a bit of occasional amusement?

[donmontalvo]

Here's a good laugh, the VLP PKG deploys silently (supposedly with embedded license)...but look what happens on first launch:

1. Enterprise user does not have admin rights, this prompt is apparently to install the required Kernel Extension...more on that below:external image link

2. User is prompted for Contacts.app access...for no good reason in enterprise:
   external image link

3. A bunch of prompts not needed/desired in enterprise:
   external image link
   external image link
   external image link

4. Well what do we have here, a volume license PKG that prompts non-admin users for serial number they don't have:
   external image link

5. Let's put these into ~/Library/Services because we don't care:
   external image link

6. Let's not sign that Kernel Extension, and let's put it in the wrong folder:
   external image link

7. Now let's error out during install (because #8):
   external image link

8. Let's ask the user to register, even though user doesn't own software:
   external image link

9. Let's cap things off with update prompts for every. single. user, and lets-install-services-in-the-wrong-place-because:
   external image link

I'm being nice, so I won't talk about the bucket-of-photoshop-files installed in /Library.

Wow.

Don

[bajones]

@donmontalvo This might be my favorite post on this site

[taugust04]

Thanks for doing this legwork @donmontalvo. Toast 12 is on my to do list, and you've convinced me to go the Composer package route, considering the number of preferences that need to be captured anyway...

~Ted

[donmontalvo]

@taugust04 if you have a volume license, you might want to reach out to Corel/Roxio for their VLP package. Even if it blows chunks, putting them on the clock, and establishing a paper trail might help them address their internal dev problems. Just a thought.

I wonder why anyone would need Toast. Its bloatware. Its unstable. Its unreliable. Macs don't ship with optical drives anymore. Free alternatives exist (Burn, etc.). Maybe the guy who maintains Timbuktu moved over to Corel/Roxio?

Don

[damienbarrett]

Great Noodley Appendages, Don. That's simply astonishing in its ineptitude. Look out, Adobe, someone's gunning for your title of "Least Friendly Mac Enterprise Software Vendor".

(although, in fairness, Adobe's been better than they used to be, but still pretty clueless. For instance, why does an Adobe CS6 installation constantly notify end-users that there are updates, but the updates are actually links for installing trial versions of CC? Gah!!!!!)

[hansen_m]

I'm paraphrasing a bit from my actual deployment process but this is how I install Toast 11. Something similar may work for Toast 12.

/usr/sbin/installer -pkg "__Download/ToastTitanium.pkg" -target /
/usr/sbin/installer -pkg "__Download/ToastUpdate.pkg" -target /

/usr/bin/defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist SUSendProfileInfo -bool NO
/usr/bin/defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist SUEnableAutomaticChecks -bool NO
/usr/bin/defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist SUHasLaunchedBefore -bool YES
/usr/bin/defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist "did register" -bool YES
/usr/bin/defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist "last setup assistant run version" -int 999999999

/usr/bin/defaults write /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.videoplayer.plist isGood -bool YES

// Remove Unsupported Applications
/bin/rm -Rfd "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/Disc Cover 3 RE.app"
/bin/rm -Rfd "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/DiscCatalogMaker.app"
/bin/rm -Rfd "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/Get Backup 2 RE.app"
/bin/rm -Rfd "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/Mac2Tivo.app"
/bin/rm -Rfd "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/Spin Doctor.app"
/bin/rm -Rfd "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/TiVo Transfer.app"

// Install BlueRay Support Kext
/bin/bash -c "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/Toast Titanium.app/Contents/Resources/InstallBDSupport.sh"

// Install Rox.dat License File
mv "Rox.dat" "/Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/Toast Titanium.app/Contents/MacOS/Rox.dat"

// Permissions Workaround
/bin/bash -c "/bin/chmod 777 /Applications/Toast 11 Titanium/Toast Titanium.app/Contents/MacOS/Rox.dat"

[taugust04]

@donmontalvo - our Art faculty still like it for creating DVD's. We're using it less and less. Burn is cool, but its also not updated often, and free, so I always wonder about reliability. I'll probably package Toast up with Composer and then wait until the sales person asks for our yearly maintenance renewal to push the VLP packaging issues. It's good to have some negotiating power for a product that's essentially in development purgatory. Sometimes money is the only thing that talks.

~Ted

[donmontalvo]

@taugust04 @damienbarrett our biggest struggle is deploying with the VLP license, so we don't have to "touch" the Macs, and so the user isn't disrupted.

[#23]

I was thinking I wouldn't bother requesting upgrades to Toast 12 for deployment this spring - now I'm convinced. What a mess.

[donmontalvo]

@pete_c yea, when you get a VLP PKG from the vendor that doesn't deploy a licensed copy of the software (and then some), its time to get the shovel out.

[taugust04]

@pete_c - I would test to see if 11.2 works with Yosemite. Reading some of the Roxio forums, it sounds like 12 is required for full support/compatibility, whatever that means.

[mm2270]

People still use Toast? To make DVDs? Really?

In all seriousness, something as screwed up as that 'deployment' strategy from a vendor would likely make us to refuse to deploy it all, and tell our clients pick something else. Even if that something else wasn't easy to deploy either, at least it probably won't spew a bunch of nonsense apps and garbage all over the system.

[franton]

Sadly yeah, people still use Toast. My former workplace in particular. I remember giving up on Toast 11 and snapshotting the b@&))3r. Wouldn't work with 12 it seems.

@donmontalvo FYI, I'm on a train home from London and got some interesting looks as I tried to contain my laughter at your posts and the absurdity of it all. 10/10 ;)

[davidacland]

But which post is the right answer?

[donmontalvo]

@davidacland we need a like button. :) The solution for us is to not deploy unless/until they fix their broken installer, so it can be deployed without touching the Macs.

[davidacland]

I guess Roxio must have bigger problems on their plate at the moment with their business disappearing down the plug hole. I'm surprised their not using a Vise installer!

[donmontalvo]

@davidacland word finally got to the VP of development, I guess we'll see if these issues are acknowledged/resolved.

They do seem to be following the path Quark took after the product lost market share, became marginally useful, and profits started to slide...merge, merge, merge, and watch your capable staff be slowly replaced with cheaper, less capable staff...gotta protect that cash cow...

BREAKING NEWS:
After a bit more testing we found (yet) another application being installed in the non-admin user's home directory:
external image link

I wish I was good at blogging, you can't make this $#!+ up...

[donmontalvo]

I'm just going to leave this here...

Roxio Community - Enterprise Deployment (Or Lack Thereof)
http://forums.support.roxio.com/topic/108206-enterprise-deployment-or-lack-thereof/

[tnielsen]

external image link

[donmontalvo]

@tnielsen yea we're trying to convince the group they don't need it. :(

[tnielsen]

=)

[donmontalvo]

12.1 is out...yawwnnn....

[donmontalvo]

I haven't had a chance to create a Composer manifest for Toast 12.1 but here is an image of what we found needs to be packaged.

external image link

The developer is helping us, but to set expectation, they don't have enough resources to put into making their proper PKG installer more enterprise friendly. No surprises there, seems to be the trend now-a-days.

Their PKG is flat, and can be pushed to a logged off computer; since the madness only starts once Toast 12.1 is launched.

So DMG format package is required to deploy using JSS, else create a flat PKG and loop the user level stuff.

On a bright note, after many emails, the developer has agreed to collaborate with us, so we can leverage any "defaults" commands that may exist. For example, disabling auto updates checking:

$ defaults read /Users/johndoe/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist SUEnableAutomaticChecks 0

With a little effort, we can push their Toast 12.1 flat PKG, along with the license key, and defaults commands.

Will post back if/when we get further along.

HTH,
Don

[donmontalvo · Accepted solution]

I can not attribute any of the following to any current/past/future Roxio engineer, but let's just say thank you very much for helping get this sorted out over a weekend.

The work was done on his computer. I connected remotely to share my knowledge and at the end we have a working deployment process that removes 11 and installs 12 and hits the Dock icons along the way.

Requirements:
- Toast 12 Titanium (version 12.1; won't work with 12.0)
- Test computer running 10.9.x (that's what we used)
- JSS 9.6x (that's what we used)

Create a removal script and upload to JSS:

#!/bin/sh
/bin/rm -Rfd /Applications/Toast 11 Titanium;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Library/Application Support/Roxio;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Documents/Roxio Converted Items;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Documents/TiVo Recordings;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/BeLight Software;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Disc Cover 3 RE;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/DiskCatalogMaker;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Mac2TiVo;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Roxio;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Application Support/Spin Doctor X;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.belightsoft.DiskCover3.re.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.belightsoft.GetBackup2.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.mac.fujisoft.DiskCatalogMaker.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Mac2Tivo.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.spindoctorx.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.Toast.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.roxio.videoplayer.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/com.tivo.desktop.plist;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Preferences/Roxio.dat;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Saved Application State/com.belightsoft.DiskCover3.re.savedState;
/bin/rm -Rfd /Users/*/Library/Services/ToastIt.service;
/bin/rm -Rfd /System/Library/Extensions/RoxioBluRaySupport.kext;
/bin/rm -Rfd /System/Library/Extensions/CDSDAudioCaptureSupport.kext

Take snapshot (sorry not a fan of Composer manifests; plus you can learn more by going through the motions):

1. Log in as root
2. Take BEFORE snapshot
3. Install Toast 12 Titanium
4. Launch Toast 12 Titanium
5. Go thorugh the motions to license/suppress (EULA, serial number, let it install Service, ignore stupid kext error, do not register, etc.)
6. Quit/relaunch Toast 12 Titanium to be sure settings stuck
7. Launch DiskCatalogMaker and Live Screen Capture if those matter at all (didn't to us)
8. Reboot and launch the apps again to be sure
9. Take AFTER snapshot and let it compare
10. Clean up the snapshot so it looks like the below image
11. Save as DMG and answer YES when asked if you want to populate user directories with the stuff in root's home directory
12. Upload DMG to JSS

Snapshot should look like this:

optional image ALT text

Upload Toast 11 Titanium Dock icon...and upload Toast 12 Titanium Dock icon. Yes they can both exist in JSS.

Create policy:

• Run the above script BEFORE to remove Toast 11 Titanium
• Remove old Dock icon, add new Dock icon
• Install Toast 12 TItanium and fill existing users / fill user template
• Have it update inventory
• No reboot necessary; no logout necessary
• We chose to make this a Self Service item for users to invoke
• Set Self Service item to run once per computer but don't provide a trigger
• For compliance reasons, obviously, narrow scope based on entitlement
• Test on a test Mac of course.
• Test on another Mac of course.
• Test on yet another Mac because why not.

User goes to Self Service, is warned to exit Toast, then Toast 11 is removed, and Toast 12 is installed, old Dock icon is removed, new Dock icon is added, and inventory is updated.

Last step: contact Roxio and point to this thread if only to shame and publicly lambast them for profiting off your sweat.

HTH,
Don

[donmontalvo]

This is where @gregneagle chimes in to say he has a better/easier/holier way to do this. Actually he probably won't post that here, but on IRC. :)

[johncwelch]

And people wonder why bad installers make me so angry.

[donmontalvo]

Wait...did @johncwelch just post to not one but TWO of my threads?! :)

I can die in peace now. :D