10.8 as a vm?

[tkimpton]

Are we allowed to do this? I can't find any documentation from Apple to say we cant.

http://partnerweb.vmware.com/GOSIG/MacOSX_10_8.html

[tkimpton]

No Allowed to do this according to Apple EULA

http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/OSX1082.pdf

(iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using OS X Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use.

And

H. Other Use Restrictions. The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to, install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so. Except as otherwise permitted by the terms of this License or otherwise licensed by Apple: (i) only one user may use the Apple Software at a time, and (ii) you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be run or used by multiple computers at the same time. You may not rent, lease, lend, sell, redistribute or sublicense the Apple Software.

Cant do this no matter what vmware says they can do!

[jarednichols]

Yes, you can, as long as you're virtualizing on Apple hardware. ("Apple on Apple") VMWare Fusion is the VMWare option, NOT the VSphere products. Parallels Desktop I believe also supports it. VirtualBox doesn't inherently support it, but there are ways to crowbaring it in there.

[rtrouton]

You can run OS X VMs on ESXi 5.x:

http://blogs.vmware.com/guestosguide/guest-os/unix-and-others/mac-osx

I've got a Mac Pro running ESXi with 10.7.x and 10.8.x OS X VMs in my test environment for automated patch testing. ESXi doesn't have the NetBoot support that Fusion has, so I built the VMs first in Fusion then moved them over to the ESXi server.

[donmontalvo]

@rtrouton wrote:

You can run OS X VMs on ESXi 5

Yep, on Apple hardware. One of our engineers believed OS X could be legally virtualized on non-Apple branded hardware. Our VMWare did a good job of assuring him he could virtualize OS X on Dell (etc) hardware. Of course the rep was wrong. No sweat for me, I won two beers in a friendly wager. I wouldn't want to be that VMWare rep right now. ;)

[mpermann]

It's nice to know it's technically possible to run Mac OS 10.8.x on ESXi. Now if Apple would just change their EULA to allow it there would be many happy enterprise customers.

[GSquared]

Technically you are able to run it on VMWare on non-Apple hardware, it's just against the Apple EULA. It runs even faster sometimes than Apple Hardware to be honest...

Relating to the OP, the answer would be as stated above (Yes on Apple HW and no on anything other than that) but it is possible to achieve.

[tkimpton]

Thanks guys for clearing that up :)

[donmontalvo]

@GSquared I remember VMWare released a patch that included locking out that ability, and I'm sure they'll continue to find ways to trip up hackers, to ensure Apple doesn't come after them.

@mpermann Apple sales would likely suffer, I'm sure. But I totally agree, our developers would love to be able to virtualize OS X on non-Apple hardware. Hopefully Apple would at least offer a paid license for that.

[mpermann]

@donmontalvo, I agree it's possible that hardware sales could suffer if Apple allowed virtualizing OS X on non-Apple hardware. I don't think enterprise hardware sales would suffer if they allowed virtualization of OS X on VMWare ESXi and their competitors. Especially since Apple doesn't sell enterprise level server hardware anymore. :-)

[hkim]

A license for virtualizing OS X VMs? Apple does sell it.

It's called buying Apple hardware. Look it comes with a license for 2 virtual machines and free hardware. Apple is no longer a "hardware company" according to Tim Cook after all.

All kidding aside, I don't think Apple will ever allow there OS to ever run on anything other that something that came out of Apple. The hardware and software are tied hand in hand, remember the last time they tried to license the OS on other hardware makers? Yeah that didn't work out so great for anyone.

[ooshnoo]

@ rtrouton

I've tried the same method..built VM in Fusion then uploaded it to VSphere and every time I try and boot from the image, VSphere says something like "DarwinOS not support"

can you please elaborate on any specifics????

[rtrouton]

Here's how I'm creating OS X VMs in Fusion, then uploading them to an ESXi server:

http://derflounder.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/migrating-os-x-vms-to-an-vmware-esxi-server/

[tkimpton]

As long as your running esxi server on Apple hardware then its ok

If running esxi server on Windows then you are breaching Apples EULA and you are putting your organisation at risk of a legal whipping should Apple come after you!

[tkimpton]

Does esxi server install on mac osx. I cant find any information. I would like to have test mac os vm machines and even my jss on a vm.

In disaster recovery i would just get any apple hardware i can, install esxiserver and load the jss vm from an offside backup

[donmontalvo]

@hkim wrote:

The hardware and software are tied hand in hand, remember the last time they tried to license the OS on other hardware makers? Yeah that didn't work out so great for anyone.

We bought a bunch of the Umax and PowerComputing clones back at the service bureau, mostly to run Heidelberg Topaz scanners. It ran fine except for those funky SCSI drivers. But yea, the clone idea didn't go well for Apple. :)

@rtrouton wrote:

Here's how I'm creating OS X VMs in Fusion, then uploading them to an ESXi server: http://derflounder.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/migrating-os-x-vms-to-an-vmware-esxi-server/

Dude, you rock our world again! :) We are building out a Mac packaging environment, ESXi on Mac is definitely the way to go. Even if the EULA only allows 2 VM instances of OS X per Apple-branded Mac, the ability to nuke/pave VMs for development work is definitely a huge plus for our developers.

Don

[tkimpton]

sorry for being dumb. But IS there an installer for ESXi for Mac or is it Windows only?

[donmontalvo]

I hate VMWare's site, not very user friendly. :) My VMWare login isn't working (ESXi download) likely because I'm using a gmail account. I'll try logging in with my corp email later today.

http://derflounder.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/setting-up-esxi-5-1-on-a-2011-mac-mini-server/

[tkimpton]

Thanks Don :)

[evarona]

Sorry to be late to this thread. I've talked about this with my VMware rep and a couple of their engineers. Xserve 3,1 and MacPro 5,1 are still on the ESX HCL search tool (http://www.vmware.com/go/hcl). About a year ago I was able to successfully install ESX 5.0 on a MacPro but the trick was I needed to install from a physical DVD. I couldn't get the SOB to work from any other boot media. But once I had it running I was able to manage it from a browser or with VSphere on Windows. I was also able to get it added to our dev VDI VCenter which meant policies and updating worked as well. But since I only have one MP for this purpose, I can't tell you if VMotion or any of the other HA options work.

I had crappy experiences in keeping OSX running but not installing it. I just converted the OSX DMG to an ISO with Disk Utility and created a new VM from within VSphere. No importing. I did notice the boot times were very long but this was with 10.7. I haven't looked at this in a while, obviously.

I'll only add that I've spoken with a few Apple reps on the topic of virtualizing OSX. Once we get past the licensing issue and talk about (the real issue of) support for virtualization, the answer is always some polite form of "no".

I'll stop there before I have to get out my soapbox... :-P