Deploy Studio User new to JAMF Casper

[hdsst3]

Hello I used deploy studio to make monolithic images for several years.
My work flow was to image and partition a drive.
Then license spss with a script and bind to AD with the deploy studio GUI.

Now my IT department wants to use JAMF Casper. I have 22 pieces of software to install. The tech people at JAMF tell me I should do thin imaging.

So does that mean I need to make 22 different packages with composer followed by 22 packages of preferences? If so what's the benfit of Casper??. I don't want to spend a whole week making an imaging work flow.

Also my JDS is 100 GB only and I got an error when trying to compile a 35 GB image.

I will have 5 image work flows all creating 35 GB images? So I'm guessing my JDS share needs to be 350 GB at least right?

Would appreciate some ones help. I work part time only and tech support people here just send me documentation which is useless.

[davidacland]

Hi,

The main advantage of modular imaging is the ability to use the packages in as many imaging configurations in as many different combinations as you like. So when you drop in the package for Microsoft Office (for example), you only do that once for all images.

The same goes for the OS, if you use smart configurations, you can have the OS in the top and when there is a new version, you just drop it in, and it will apply to all the smart configs beneath it.

There is definitely a steep learning curve and it takes a bit of getting used to, but once you've got the hang of it, the benefits will come through.

Regarding disk space, if you use modular imaging, you won't have any duplicated data so the requirements will be much lower.

Just a note about JDSes, if you do have a monolithic image, I probably wouldn't drop that into Casper admin. It might work ok, but because it has to copy it into the MySQL database before it ends up on the DP, you might end up crashing something.

Have you already had your JumpStart from JAMF?

[bentoms]

@hdsst3 I've a post on my casper imaging workflow, here.

Does that help clarify the process some?

Alternatively, some people still use DeployStudio to image & add a Recon created QuickAdd.pkg to the workflow, which then enrolls the client into the JSS.

Might be a way to go for an interim period.

[sean]

We use a different product to Casper....ahem..., but the design could be with any deployment solution. We still use Deploy Studio. You say that you don't want to spend a week creating a modular workflow, but the long term time savings are more than worth it. Changing a monolithic image is slow and laborious. As already mentioned, once you start using a modular process you really will see the benefits.

Like ben, we use fstab with a partition, however we do this and a whole bunch of configuration during the Deploy Studio phase. Yes we could do this through our deployment software solution, however, if I wished to change which solution we used it would take a lot less effort. So binding, default user profile, preferences, e.g. software update configuration, etc is all handled by scripts in DS.

The power of solutions like Casper, go well beyond just deploying software. Once the machine is imaged and configured the management is then handled by our choice of solution.

So if you already have some workflows in DS, you could leave these in place. It would however be worth taking the advice and use AutoDMG to create the base image and let DS install this and pass software installations over to Casper.

With respect to packaging, yes if you have 22 apps to install, then yes you will want all 22 in Casper. Yes you could do this manually or alternatively you could look at AutoPKG to do the work for you. Check out Greg's video. (I think this is the right link, I'm on a train so I have a denial of video streaming).

autopkg

You could take the next step and not image at all, but you might want to try the above and get use to that first.

[sean]

Probably also worth mentioning that if you want to know the benefits of Casper and modular imaging, then see if you can check out a setup of someone that is already doing this.

Where are you? There's probably someone near enough to you that would be willing to let you see their setup.

[Look]

The other great thing about having individual packages in Casper is that you can then have them in Self Service as well, for some staff this will mean they can just have the simplest image you have available and then add any additional stiff they require if and when they ever need it.
Casper Imaging if your using this doesn't require the images to be compiled at all, it works just fine imaging directly using the packages.
The compilation aspect is most useful if your planning on exporting the images out to Deploy Studio or something and if you do that you don't need to keep the compiled versions in Casper once they have been copied out.

[hdsst3]

Yes I had the Jump start which was completely useless.
I am in in CT near Hartford

[calumhunter]

lol so documentation is useless... jumpstarts are useless

what makes you think that any replies on here will be any better to you?

It sounds like your annoyed that you've been told to use casper instead of deploy studio and because of this you are now making excuses for why you can't use it or why is it far more difficult to use than deploy studio.

The thing is that monolithic imaging really should have stopped at 10.5 once the local KDC was introduced.

So if you've only just come on board to modular and thin based imaging workflows then it will be a slightly steep learning curve. But you need to be willing to spend the time and effort to learn about these new methodologies. If you are not willing to do this then there is very little than anyone can do to help you.

[davidacland]

@hdsst3 i have to disagree about the jumpstarts. They are very valuable. If you were not happy with the quality of the jumpstart you received, that would be something to take up with your account manager. JAMF are a great company to work with and I'm sure they would try to work something out of you weren't happy.

[betty02]

I didn't listen :P So I made a "fat" build. Installs all the base applications I wanted, so photoshop CC, office, iWork, firefox, chrome, a good few more! Then I just block copy image across, takes about 6 minutes then any additional software i push out through casper, reason I do this is because I work in media and the creative need a machine back asap with Photoshop for example, so i can do this in 15 minutes then have them back working again, and send out stuff i need to. Some machines require nothing.

Many go against this - and I agree with there views - however in this place it just works and works really well!

Also at the time I did find the JumpStart useless, now I've been given a a more active role which involves pretty much 99% casper administration - the training now all seems fantastic! Wish i listened more the first time in all honesty!! But I was anti-casper so didn't give it the time it really does deserve.

Just my honesty!

[calumhunter]

How often do you have to create a new fat image? every time you need to include updates to CC, Office, iWork, OS updates, Security Updates, Firefox, Chrome ect ect?

Or do you deploy your fat image and then update everything? If so, how long does that take? Do you do it manually?

What about when new machines come along that require a special build of OS X? Do you then have to setup a new image from scratch? How long does that take?

Each to their own.. but the benefits of modular are clear once you get a decent amount of machines and a decent amount of software to install/maintain

[betty02]

@calumhunter - I create a new flat image once every 6 months, only because i get OCD about things! I send out chrome, security and firefox updates etc through policies, which you would need to do anyway with a thin image.

As good practice once the image is done I just run any updates that are needed, for the sake of a few minutes its easier to do it there and then if we get the time!

When you say a "special" build what do you mean exactly? We have a base image as no matter what machine comes in they all need X,Y and Z - if they require A,B and C we policy that, every machine here has to have the same base of apps used across the building. Takes from start to finish to image a machine back to deployment is 15 minutes max - including us "profiling" the machine (FileVault to certain user, email configs etc)

We have 400+ machines now, and In my old job we had double and did it the same way as above. It's just my preferred way. In my eyes there isn't a right or wrong way as casper caters well for both. 1 persons preferred way may not cater for certain business. I work in media, we have so many creatives working on huge projects for the likes of McVities, Luczade, Bose and literally hundreds more it's important to us to have them back at a machine within 30 minutes max!

[calumhunter]

So you're basically doing modular imaging anyway...

If your deploying chrome, firefox and other updates via policies then you don't need to include them in your base image. I'm assuming you are updating CC and Office? Thats gotta be 3-4Gb for the full master collection and if you're office 2016 those updates are about 3Gb as well. Must take some time to update no? Or do you send it out and then let the user apply all the updates?

Special build as in apple releases new hardware that requires a build of OS that is newer than is available.

ie the new retina macbooks required a special build of 10.10.4 in order to boot.

For sure it depends on environment. There is just a number of things to watch out with monolithic imaging but it depends on your environment and your fleet of machines, and what post imaging scripts or clean up scripts your running. ie local KDC cleanup, caches, kernel caches, network configuration settings ect ect

but each to their own as long as its meeting your requirements and you're happy to support it :)

[betty02]

We run mainly retina anyway so thankful that image works on our older one. We tend to offer most updates in Self Service, some people never update anything until the next rebuilt, some people love to keep on top of it. It's user choice.

We skip CC and office updates until the next rebuild unless it fixes a major flaw or major security issues we just push it out, or again self service it and get the use to do it as and when they can.

It's a little crazy at times skipping the versions but I do a new build every 6 months so it's rare we miss out on stuff, and we usually stay a few versions behind, such as were running 10.10.5 now until 100% happy with El Capitan, which I actually am so after our mad christmas pitch rush I will start to gather machines in ready to image with El Capitan.

It's not the ideal way, or the recommended way but as you say if it works and has for the past few years then I'm happy! It's good to manage and easy to teach any new tech's also! We have a few cleanup scripts that we run and 2nd reboot etc, cashes cleared and all that! It's all good at the moment! We still have casper8 running our old thin image way, but we find it just hangs loads on installing packages. So things like CC are so much better on the image then tying to push out as a package afterwards etc!

Cheers
Simon

[stevewood]

@hdsst3 if you have a working Deploy Studio workflow, stick with it. Like others have mentioned, there's more than one way to image a computer, and if a FAT image deployed via DS works, don't change it. Well, just add a Casper QuickAdd package to the workflow so the machine gets enrolled in the JSS.

[hdsst3]

@calumhunter FYI my jumpstart never covered how to make a netinstall image and never covered how to construct a work flow.

The jump start focused on MDM and setting up the JSS.

Maybe your jumpstart was different. Here The only thing of value the to "image" the the machines was TMI. But I'm not gong use TMI for 400+ machines.

Also, the documentation is 600 pages I have other things do at work besides read 600 pages.

No more sarcasm please... Thank you

[mpermann]

@hdsst3 are you wanting to move from DisplayStudio and monolithic imaging to Casper Imaging and more modular imaging? If you are, I'd be happy to give you some assistance. If you are happy with the way you are doing things now and you haven't had any problems then I would second what @stevewood said about just adding a QuickAdd package to your DisplayStudio workflow. It took me a while to switch over from monolithic imaging to modular once we purchased Casper. But ultimately, I'm glad I did.

[calumhunter]

@hdsst3 Did you ask about imaging work flows during your jumpstart?

You don't need to read all 600 pages of the product documentation, there are indexes, chapters and sections for the relevant areas of knowledge you require. You should, however, at some point - perhaps even in your own time, read through it all. It will give you an understanding of the product, what it can do and how it can do it.

We're not here to do your job for you. We can only help you if you want to be helped.

It seems that you want the answer without having to do any work.

All of the information you are seeking has been discussed and documented in many many different threads, blogs and other documentation.

We can only provide the information, you still need to read it, understand it, implement it in your environment.

If thats not something you're comfortable with. Maybe this isn't the career for you.

/drops mic

[hdsst3]

@calumhunter I guess this doesn't apply here?

Community Etiquette

JAMF Nation was created to foster growth and success of the community supporting Apple in the enterprise by sharing ideas and information. In order to keep this community useful and effective, we ask that you please remember the following guidelines:

Be polite and constructive. Search for questions or feature requests similar to your own before creating new ones. Reward your community members by marking posts as an "Answer" when appropriate.

To bad can't PM anyone here. Seems like other people are willing to provide constructive feedback

[calumhunter]

Why edit your post?

You're funny Cal Buddy. I asked many questions during the Jump Start and the technician did not answer the majority of my questions. He basically went through a script for 3 days. No hands on activity for anything either. Also, I came here for answers and never expected to be insulted by you. I think you're the one in the wrong career. Your stress levels are of the charts, attacking me for just seeking information. What else is Jamfantion for?? "drops mic" wow that's cool too. I never expected to be learning slang here either. BTW I would love to PM the more helpful people here but don't see a way to do that. You have an answer to that Cal Buddy?

I don't think any of my comments were in opposition to the Community Etiquette.

I'm sorry if I insulted you or offended you. I am often quite direct, but I found your comments that documentation and the jumpstart were useless to be a bit of a cop-out on your behalf.

You or your employer paid a lot of money for the jumpstart. If you were not happy with the training provided you should have raised your concerns with it asap.

You get out what you put in.

In any case this has gone well off topic.

So lets try to bring it back.

Now my IT department wants to use JAMF Casper. I have 22 pieces of software to install. The tech people at JAMF tell me I should do thin imaging.

This is the preferred methodology for a lot of reasons that have already been outlined in this thread.

So does that mean I need to make 22 different packages with composer followed by 22 packages of preferences? If so what's the benfit of Casper??. I don't want to spend a whole week making an imaging work flow.

Yes, but you may not need to create these packages yourself. The software may already come packaged. These packages may be ready to simply import into casper admin and deploy via a policy. Test Test Test. If there are problems with deployment you may need to repackage depending upon the software and your environment.

There is also AutoPKGr that can download software, package it if required and import into the JSS automagically for you. https://github.com/lindegroup/autopkgr

As for preferences, most preferences for most applications should be/can be controlled by using Configuration Profiles.

A week spent creating an modular imaging workflow, pays dividends when you need to update individual pieces of software. Again as mentioned above modular imaging workflows have a lot of benefits when you consider the speed at which apps are updated and the OS are released.

Also my JDS is 100 GB only and I got an error when trying to compile a 35 GB image. I will have 5 image work flows all creating 35 GB images? So I'm guessing my JDS share needs to be 350 GB at least right?

I don't use the JDS and I have never compiled an image so I can't help much here.

But also be aware that when you are using the JDS, any packages, images etc etc are moved from casper admin to the JSS DB i.e. MYSQL then to the JDS, so if import a 20Gb image to casper admin, this will then get stored into a MySQL table before being copied out to the JDS so make sure your database server has plenty of space, much more than your JDS.

[bentoms]

@hdsst3 I'd urge you to come to the MacAdmins Slack & the #jamfnation channel within.

Sometimes, a more flowing chat room can make a conversation easier.

I think all of us responding here are on there, but there are now nearly 2200 admins on that in total.

But, as others here have advised. You don't have to choose over DS & Casper.

DS is used by many to image with a quickadd adding to enroll devices to Casper.

I hope you do come to a solution that you're happy with. It may be a bumpy road though.